phpvms is only for selling now

[jamyboy]

Dear Fellow members i am writing this not to offend anyone so please do not take it personally.

During these days i see many of the airlines working on phpvms system which is good sign but the disadvantage for all of beginners in coding stuff as well its good to have many good developers around making some nice modules but when phpvms started when ever anyone requires help regarding any website layout or any coding stuff or anything related to modules people do come to take support from other members who have coding skills and people do help them as well but now its very sad to see when ever someone needs help he/she comes for help and post here in phpvms forums but almost people dont reply back to solve his/her problem coz if anyone is ready to pay money for the same people will be ready for help asking to send PM to get more information phpvms is now more towards commercial now so i request you guys if you can help or support people through this platform will be much appreciated from everyone none coders or developers again i am not writing this to offend anyone.

Thank you for your understanding

[MC1028]

Well,

I understand your point, and I'm not trying to point score, but I do offer my services for free, however I do see that the money that you pay is for that developers time, and effort, which is sometimes frowned upon. I don't mind doing this for free, but if it will take a very long time, then there you go.

Cheers

[Vangelis]

Let me desagree with you as a developer myself this is my view of point

David has created many free modules for phpvms

https://github.com/DavidJClark?tab=repositories

Myself aswell

@ www.baggelis.com you can find 2 free modules out of the 3 and also an opensource Acars Client that you are free to modify for your VA needs

also in the forums under addons you will find more developers that have created free modules

The last months now i have seen some certain members posting that they want help without providing any code that means that they didnt make the efford to try and make something themselfs and they expect a ready solution.

This means that someone has to spend some time to create the solution that someone else doesnt know how to do it or didnt search how to do it, for me this time has to get payed somehow.

Also i never saw someone posting code that had a problem with it and not getting help with that

[Tom]

I've made some free things available a while back, and while I'm not around helping so much anymore that's mostly because I don't have time - we have jobs and our own stuff to get on with too?

It annoys me somewhat when people complain about this and take help for granted, especially as people do help for free on a very regular basis and in a timely manner (certainly compared to the free support you get from paid products and companies where they don't respond for weeks on end).

What do you do for a living? How do you pay for things to get through life? I'm a web/font-end developer, so this is my day job.

Put yourself in the position of the people you're asking help from. You'd be happy to do some work for a friend in your spare time, but imagine now that some random person you've never met before comes along and says they want you to do something, potentially quite complex, in your own free time, but they make very clear they have no intention of paying/compensating you for said precious time. Something you're normally paid for during the day.

Would you not feel a little annoyed too?

[Edwin]

I think what the original poster means by his post is that the commerce is taking more possession on this forum instead of a group of people helping each other out of hobby perspective.

[Tom]

I think what the original poster means by his post is that the commerce is taking more possession on this forum instead of a group of people helping each other out of hobby perspective.

I think everything said so far in this thread still makes sense in whichever context you understand the original post. People put very little effort into helping themselves and expect far too much to be done for them.

There's loads of support answers already in the forum which will adequately answer the vast majority of support requests and modules that can be easily adapted to accommodate peoples' needs - but nobody can be bothered to try for themselves. If people aren't going to use the free resources available to them already then sure others are going to want to charge for their time to do it for them.

[jamyboy]

Dear @vangelis and @Tom i do agree with you that there are lots of modules for free but that was made by the time when people were not thinking of making phpvms as money making source what i mean to say is now phpvms is more towards commercial people do help but in return of money there is no free service offered many people do post there problems and nobody bothers to answer i agree people wont make any effort to search the forums they want shortcut but it doesn't apply for all i will give my example i have posted few problems few days back i need help in few coding stuff so i asked for help nobody bothers to answer in those posts till now infect i got a PM from 2 guys that they are ready to help me but it will be paid services not for free so now instead of helping people for small small things people were thinking of business money and day by day more people adopting this trend of commercialism as i said above this post is not to offend anyone there are some people who still create free modules but the trend already has been set so i am just requesting if people can keep the same purpose as on what nabeel started this and given a free platform to all virtual aviation lovers don't make it commercial fully.

thank you

[mseiwald]

Actually i think everyone has to decide whether he wants to spend his own time to make modules for free or charge for his work.

Nabeel created the platform phpVMS for free and it will be available for free to everyone at any time but if someone wants more features, a different look or whatever and either does not have the time or is not willing or interested in learning how to do this himself he can either post here and wait to see if someone is able and willing to help, pay someone to do it for him or if neither of those options are acceptable to him he probably needs to drop that idea.

I personally charge for my time and will also continue to do so in the future. It is my spare that i have to use for these things and i think it is perfectly fine to ask money for your hard work.

However i totally agree that these forums have been created to help people with phpVMS and i don't like to see that recently more and more people see this as platform to offer their paid services all over the forum.

In all those years here i made 2 posts about my commercial services and ONLY in the paid services forum. It never even came to my mind to start PM people who are posting for help in the support forums about my paid services. To me it seems that these people desperately need some customers for their services which would lead me personally to think about the quality of their services.

I believe that paid offers should be restricted to the paid services forum and that moderators should delete any paid stuff from other topics. Also all such unwanted PMs should be reported to moderators and appropriate action against those members should be taken. But thats just my opinion.

If someone looks for a paid service he knows that there is a paid services forum here where he finds contact details to all the developers. So yeah i agree these guys should stop Spamming the forums with their paid offers.

[Tom]

Completely agree with the above. Totally overlooked people PMing regarding posts in the support forum. I disagree with doing that entirely. If you're going to offer to help, do so publicly and in keeping with the nature of the forum you're posting in (i.e. don't push your paid services outside of the paid services forum).

[joeri]

now regarding the pm-ing of people sadly we as staff got emails from members regarding this,and sadly we can count the person doing this one 1 hand. we talked to them but still they keep doing it and just ignore us, and be verry rude to us and members.

so i also personaly think if you get a PM offering paid services let us(the mods) know and we can take action. temp ban, perm ban , only acces to one sertain subforum.

[simpilot]

The soliciting of unrequested paid services through private messaging is not looked upon in a positive light here in this forum. If you have someone messaging you trying to sell you a service or module please let us know using the report to moderator link that is available. Do not delete the message, we may ask to see it prior to taking action. I have also pinned a notice to the top of the support forum.

*The following is my opinion only and comes from experience on this and other forums. Some of the items I suggest appear on other forums that I am a member of as well.

The statement that one cannot get support in the forum for issues with phpVMS seems to get thrown out more and more often. I cannot speak for everyone that posts here in this forum but I can give you my point of view and offer a few suggestions that I think help posts get answered with legitimate help and solutions.

Your post title:

I avoid all posts that have a title typed entirely in caps, you are obviously in a much bigger hurry than I am. Posts that have simply “Help!” as a title or have two dozen exclamation points, or question marks, I avoid as well.

Use a specific item as your title that applies to your issue.

Some examples from this forum;

Horrible titles -> “HELP!!!!!!!!!” – “URGENT HELP NEEDED WEBPAGE GIVING ERRORS!!!!!”

Not great titles -> “Small Problem” – “I have 2 questions” – “Please anyone know where to find that information”

Titles that will get attention -> “FSFK Error – Schedule does not exist. Please update this manually” – “How to have two languages on a phpVMS website?”

Before posting a question in the forum;

1 - Try to find an answer by searching the forum. – Search box at the top right of this page.

When the same question shows up for the 25^th time it tends to get skipped or answered in a sarcastic way because it is obvious you have not looked for an answer.

2 - Try to find an answer by searching using Google with your error and “phpvms”. – A classic that shows up over and over again - http://lmgtfy.com/?q...d line 28 error

3 - Try to find an answer by reading the documentation. - http://forum.phpvms....dex.php?app=ccs

4 - Try to find an answer by experimentation.

5 - Try to find an answer by reading the source code. - https://github.com/nshahzad/phpVMS

When you ask your question, display the fact that you have done these things first, this will help establish that you're not being lazy. Also show what you have learned from doing these things. Make it clear that you are able and willing to help in the process of finding a solution.

“Would someone provide a pointer”, or “What is my example missing”, are questions more likely to get answered than “Please post the exact code I should use” because you're making it clear that you're truly willing to complete the process if someone can just point you in the right direction.

Remember that everyone on this forum is a volunteer, most of us have full time jobs in the real world and phpVMS is not our first priority of every day. Our time is limited and time is valuable, I personally do not spend as much time on the forum as I used to for this reason and the seemingly repetitious nature of the questions.

Never assume you are entitled to an answer. You are not, after all, paying for the service.

If all this seems like a foreign language to you and you are not willing to put in the time and effort to learn how to code in order to design and upgrade your website then I suggest re-evaluating your decision to run a virtual airline or prepare yourself to pay to have things done that you do not know how to do and are not willing to learn.

[jamyboy]

Thank you so much @simpilot for your detailed well explanatory response i always appreciate your help and support towards phpvms and off course others as well who still are contributing and helping noob people like us.......

[freshJet]

This is an interesting thread, only just coming across it now.

David, I cannot agree with your post enough. I like to help people out where possible. I visit the forum at least daily to see what's happening, what modules/skins are being developed or released (including my own) and helping out others. However, non-meaningful titles are a a big no, I also ignore them. I also ignore, like you say, recurring issues that are asked about at least once a week. Another thing you did not cover is the shoutbox. The shoutbox is not for asking for assistance. Nor is it to pester members to give you assistance in an existing thread. What's possibly most annoying is that in a month or two the 'VA' that they needed help with will be gone.

As for the commercial aspect of the forum, I agree with mseiwald. It should be up to the developer. I was, and still am, a huge fan of free and open-source projects. That said, it's easy to understand why people want to charge for their work. Take myself for example. I have a few skins and modules in development, some are relatively easy to develop and take less time. Some have been worked on for months on end, having spent many frustrating hours on them at a time. I'm still working out what should be payware and what should be free. Whilst free releases are always going to be more popular, sometimes it's only fair that there should be something in return. I have only released two skins in the past, both free. This is far less contribution than other members however I plan to change that. My skins will continue to be free, with perhaps the odd exception, however my two upcoming modules - each destined for release within the next few months - are likely to come at a price. I plan to become a pilot and hope to make a move on that fairly soon, by the end of next year in fact if all goes well. I'm sure we all know that commercial flying training is not cheap. With that (and other financial commitments) in mind, my focus is quickly turning to paid releases.

I will always focus on the benefit of my modules and ideas rather than the $$$, which I think some members overlook. We should remember it should be a case of money for modules, not modules for money, if you get what I mean.

[Topgun]

I remember the early days of flightsim where most of it were free, on the flip side everyone helped out. Time changes and so do we, i can understand when you code all night long you have fun, but it is also work done and at the end you get support for it as well and updates. So why complain when you have to pay say $10 for something really cool like the scenery download module, can it get any cheaper? I am sure a lot of people that complains, buy a lot of expensive hardware equipment, aircraft, scenery, addons and utilities online, that ends up being hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Why complain when they put so much work into it? Learn how to program yourself and start giving it away for free? Although i think $10 for a module is more or less for free! Stop complaining and be happy with what you get for free, and be happy that you are able to download cool modules and other stuff, even if you have to pay a bit for it!! Give them a break, buy modules if you need them, that will encourage them to continue, else it will probably die out!

Just my 10 cents added!