Connecting Flights

[TAV1702]

I posted this in the older phpVMS thread.

It would be sweet if we can connect flights using the same flight number. For example, Sun Country does a flight to PANC but stops as KSEA and continues on under the same number.... or did. I have not looked lately.

The fatal TWA Flight 800 was a trip to Rome leaving new york but had a layover in between and carrying on to Rome under the 800 flight number. The way it is now, we have to screw schedules completely up and make up random numbers. I know it is possible to do. I ahve a VAM site setup and running and it works there fine. hoping we can do the same here.

[simpilot]

I want this but..... here is what I am up against and it all revolves around the ACARs currently in use and the flight search option. Currently phpVMS gets a flight number (ABC123) from the client and looks for that flight number in the system, hence if there are two or more with the same flight number the client (I am working with kACARs right now) will throw an error (No Flights Found) due to more than one schedule being returned. I looked at forcing the response to only having one flight but then how do we know it is the leg that is needed. Flights that are bid on are an easy way around this as the system will simply return the next flight in the order of the pilot bids. On the other side I have had site owners tell me that they did not want pilots having to come to the site to bid, then going to the ACARs to retrieve the flight, theory is that it turns people away by requiring too many steps.

Without a change to the ACARs client(s) the only thing that could be done is to force pilots to use a unique flight id for the flight, likely the database auto-increment id field, but that would again require a trip to the site, although you could show the unique id on the regular schedule search display. I have tested with using the unique id in place of a flight number with the current kACARs and it does work. I just do not know how much it would confuse some users though. I do like this method though. I would imagine Jeff would be willing to replace the text for the field in the client to reflect needing a unique id versus a flight number.

The other thing that could be easily implemented in my opinion is to change the ACARs clients to accept multiple flight returns and give the user a way to choose which is correct. I have the multiple leg option already built on the system itself.

[TAV1702]

I kind of thought that what we were looking at.

VAM pulled this off and it works a treat. I wonder if it is because of the way he coded SimACARS. I have no idea. What I don't know about that stuff will fill a dictionary.

 

Thanks for the reply Dave. I appreciate it.

 

Ray

[TAV1702]

Let me rehash this one more time.

I know this is possible. VAM does it on their software. How? I don't know. I have forgot more about code than I ever knew to begin with. Use it or loose it it has been said and I lost it!

[Nabeel]

So you want two separate flights to be able to use the same flight number... but is there a leg designation, like Flight 331 Leg A, Flight 331 Leg B? And when you save/favorite the flight, does it book both legs? Or they both need to be done separately? The reason I ask is because if they both need to be booked together, that is fine, but just will require an additional lookup.

I don't know how ACARS will handle it, though. But they should be able to just pass an additional leg option.

[TAV1702]

Well, take for example Sun Country Airlines. They do a flight out of KMSP to Seattle as Flight # 980 (for lack of a better example) and then after that stop, they continue on to Anchorage as the same flight number. *edit* Upon further review, they used to do that route, the no longer do. Now it is direct to PANC.

A famous example is TWA Flight 800 that went down in 1996 out of New York, was scheduled to stop in Paris and then continue on to Rome as flight 800. 

Now is this necessary? No, not at all. Would it be cool? Yes! A lot of VA's choose to mimic the day to day operations of a real airline and with the system the way it is now, keeping in mind that it is nicely done and works, is not true to airlines form. Eventually these true to form VA sites have to start faking flight numbers. 

As I said, not a necessary feature, but a nice one if it was ever to be able to happen. Not sure how the website and the ACARS developers would handle this.

[TAV1702]

And thanks for the reply Nabeel. I appreciate it!

Ray

[TAV1702]

Oh and I failed to answer part of your query. My apologies.

As far as having them do both legs, this is where the issue might come into play. Some airlines require the pilot to take off from where they landed. That might make the method work but what if said pilot is at a stop and instead of doing leg B he or she chooses another flight altogether out of the airport to somewhere else? 

I can see where my idea is cool and needed, but I can see issues with it as well. I know the VAM VA flight software works this way, but not sure how they do it. The same guy who codes the site also does his own acars too.

I guess your question adds a couple things to the equation. Nice thoughts. I'm not sure how this would work.

[Nabeel]

This is now workable in the new version. There's 3 parts: the flight number, flight code and flight leg. If you add one flight with the same flight number, you'll get an error saying you need to specify a code or leg. ACARS can also specify the code or leg.

[in2tech]

Ohh, a duh moment. I get it now! So like Flight # 1001 Code - C for cargo and leg #1 or A, B,C, etc....? And as folows:

Where C = Cargo

Fl#  Code Leg

1001 C 1 or A - KIAD - KRDU

1001 C 2 or B - KRDU - KHPN

1001 C 3 or C - KHPN - KIAD ( back to KIAD, or of course another airport? )

 

Like that?

Edited April 22, 2018 by jnascar

[Nabeel]

On 4/21/2018 at 9:23 PM, jnascar said:

Ohh, a duh moment. I get it now! So like Flight # 1001 Code - C for cargo and leg #1 or A, B,C, etc....? And as folows:

Where C = Cargo

Fl#  Code Leg

1001 C 1 or A - KIAD - KRDU

1001 C 2 or B - KRDU - KHPN

1001 C 3 or C - KHPN - KIAD ( back to KIAD, or of course another airport? )

 

Like that?

Correct. It's usually from point A to point B and then point C. A lot of times, it's because the ultimate destination is C, but a stop at B is necessary for refueling, etc. There are some times where passengers who are at B don't need to even disembark the plane if they are going to C

[in2tech]

15 hours ago, Nabeel said:

Correct. It's usually from point A to point B and then point C. A lot of times, it's because the ultimate destination is C, but a stop at B is necessary for refueling, etc. There are some times where passengers who are at B don't need to even disembark the plane if they are going to C

Nice, very nice! Great job so far ( btw, I am in2tech ) on your discord channel  The one who always post images to get my point across or not!

Thanks for all your hard work! I am really liking the new v7!

Yeah I get it:

KIAD KRDU

KRDU KHPN

KHPN KJFK

 

 is better, understand now! Ending the 3 leg route!

Edited April 24, 2018 by jnascar

[flyalaska]

We are able to this with our ACARS. Custom from Jeff. If you have kacars custom, give him a shout.

[LuxuryCEO]

On 4/25/2018 at 5:37 AM, flyalaska said:

We are able to this with our ACARS. Custom from Jeff. If you have kacars custom, give him a shout.

cant he folded   kAcars doesn't exist anymore   if you get me  hes closed up

[ProAvia]

2 hours ago, LuxuryCEO said:

cant he folded   kAcars doesn't exist anymore   if you get me  hes closed up

You do realize you are replying to a 2 year old post, right?

Two years ago, kACARS would have been a possible option. Today there will be other ACARS options - but you may have to wait until after phpVMS 7 is released.

[LuxuryCEO]

On 4/18/2020 at 9:34 PM, ProAvia said:

You do realize you are replying to a 2 year old post, right?

Two years ago, kACARS would have been a possible option. Today there will be other ACARS options - but you may have to wait until after phpVMS 7 is released.

Bah i didn't see the date. Most likely we will wait until phpvms 7 is released   our new site is still under testing and development as well 

Edited April 25, 2020 by LuxuryCEO

[PikoSim]

Hello, i am currently developing a Sector Flying Module for my own VA. Its currently 10% of progress. So how it works is like this. Route will start from HUB and end with HUB. Example, WMKK -> WMKP -> WMKK. However, the return flight will not be the same flight number. Lets say its MAS0001 (WMKK to WMKP), MAS0002 will be (WMKP to WMKK ). This simulates the NEXT flight sequence and works great. Using SmartACARS and works like a charm. I have not try KACARS yet. But i believe it is doable with kACARS if you have the needed data. I hope this is what you are looking for